Episode Transcript

Charlie Melcher:

Hi, I'm Charlie Melcher, founder of The Future of Storytelling, and I'm delighted to have you with me for today's FoST podcast. Full service agency, Giant Spoon, has changed the game of experiential marketing. Their impressive work has garnered them a ton of recognition, including Fast Companies' Most Innovative Companies in 2020, and Ad Week's Breakthrough Creative Agency of The Year in 2021. The firm is best known for their 2018 West World Activation, produced for HBO at South by Southwest, that brought guests into the fictional town of Sweetwater.

Charlie Melcher:

They built a 90,000 square foot detailed recreation of the Western town, with 66 actors, 440 pages of scripts, and an almost limitless array of user journeys. The popup was wildly successful, earning 1.9 billion media impressions, and becoming the most talked about experiential activation of the year.

Charlie Melcher:

For this episode, I'm honored to sit down with Marc Simons, Giant Spoon Co-Founder, to chat about the secret sauce behind their success, some of which is no doubt, Marc himself. He was named Ad Week's Experiential Executive of The Year in 2019, and a Media All Star in 2020. Please join me in extending a warm welcome to Marc Simons.

Charlie Melcher:

Marc, welcome to The Future of Storytelling podcast. So happy to have you with us today.

Marc Simons:

Thank you. Appreciate it. Glad to be here.

Charlie Melcher:

So I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about Giant Spoon, and specifically the whole experiential focus for the agency, and how that came about.

Marc Simons:

Sure. Giant Spoon. We are about 150 person full-service agency. We do everything. Experiential is one of the big tools in the toolkit, but when we first started, we were actually more of a strategy and ideas company, and that's still very much what we are today. But strategy and ideas quickly became, "Okay, let's actually execute those ideas." And a lot of the ideas we were coming up with were different. They pushed brands into different spaces, and broke new ground, and figured out ways to connect with consumers in different ways. Experiential was sort of a place that was ripe to reinvent.

Marc Simons:

A lot of the ideas we were coming up with started to gravitate towards, "How can we get someone to really interact with, and engage, and understand this brand? What kind of story can we tell them about the brand? How can we get them to really touch, feel, use all their senses to connect here?" And we kind of happened upon experiential. It wasn't like we set out from day one, "All right, we're going to build an experiential agency." It was like, "This is the Petri dish. What comes from it? We don't know yet, but let's see where it takes us." And experiential was one of those places that bloomed very early.

Charlie Melcher:

What led to that? There are a lot of agencies out there that didn't become known for doing some of the world's best experiential work, like you guys. How did that happen to grow out of the Petri dish?

Marc Simons:

It comes from how we started as this strategy and ideas company, where we were trying to figure out just better ways to connect. And when you look at what the world of advertising is typically used to connect with consumers, it's very one way. There's a lot of, "We're going to put out a billboard. It's going to say our message. Here's the TV spot. This is our mess-" It's a lot of that.

Marc Simons:

As the world was moving towards more two-way, where people could engage with brands on their terms, and at their choice. And we said, "Okay. We're out here to stir things up a bit. What's a place where it's been done a certain way before? And what are we going to do that gives consumers something that's a little bit beyond just like here, try our product?" And that's where it was like, "Okay, it's just another space where we can just take another look at it, and say maybe we do it differently. Maybe we go a little bit further. Maybe there's a way to do this, that is more memorable. More engaging. It's going to have a deeper impact."

Marc Simons:

And that's been, when you look at the full service side of the business, we create contents. We run social channels for brands. We make ads. We do all of those things, but we always go a little bit further with it, to make it so that we think we're tapping into something that a consumer actually wants. And we're doing something that it is memorable. And experiential, it's one way that it happened. But I think there's also more, and there's places where we haven't done it yet. New things will pop up. The metaverse is a thing. How are we going to bring brands into there, that's going to feel different? We're always looking at what the future's going to have in store for us in brands.

Charlie Melcher:

One of the things that really resonates, for me, in what you just said, was that you were very much coming at it from the customer perspective. Right? What do they want? What's going to make them want to invest their valuable time and attention? And what's going to make it memorable for them? Those are all really big insights that sadly, not every company prioritizes.

Marc Simons:

It takes a longer view on things too, that you're building a brand. You're not just necessarily selling a product. Brand love, brand loyalty. Those are actually more valuable at the end of the day, because it's long-term brand value. You need to focus on the brand. You need to tell a story of the brand. You need people to understand the brand, and love the brand, in order to do that.

Charlie Melcher:

So you're out there trying to create these kinds of memorable experiences for customers. What's an example of perhaps your most successful immersive experience that Giant Spoon has done?

Marc Simons:

I think this might be true, because when I type in Giant Spoon into Google, the auto suggest is Westworld right after that. So it might be this one. It was an incredible thing. So we created the town of Sweetwater, from Westworld, at South by Southwest, back in, this was 2018. So a couple years ago. It was essentially a theme park village, that we created. It was 90,000 square feet. So a couple of acres. We hired 60 some odd actors. We crafted four or 500 pages of script for them to act out. And it was essentially, literally building Westworld. What that show is about. Season one of what it was, where it was this luxury destination that people could go to and act out all their fantasies, and could go pretend to be Cowboys. And it was a free world that you could explore.

Marc Simons:

So we built out. We actually had found sort of a ghost town, that someone had. It was sort of his side hobby that he was building this thing out. And he was renting it out for weddings and birthday parties. So we found it. There was actually two of them outside of Austin, but we picked this one, and called him up and said, "Hey, this is the idea that we want to do. We want to take over your village that you've built out. And we want to essentially create a bit of a reenactment scene, where people can go through and explore this village."

Marc Simons:

And it was like, "Okay, great. I do have a wedding scheduled for that weekend." And we said, "Okay, well we can buy out the wedding, if they're willing to listen to an offer." So that's a little secret, but we did buy out a wedding to get our ability to get in there. And we paid handsomely for it, so that I'm sure they had a great wedding somewhere else.

Charlie Melcher:

Somewhere else.

Marc Simons:

As we're spec-ing it out, there are some buildings that exist there, but we were like, "But if we really want this to look like Sweetwater, we got to sort of redo it a little bit, create some new structures, paint everything, break it all down, and build it back up." Probably eight or nine months of work, from go to live date. There was risk involved, for sure. We didn't know if people would actually come to this thing. And when we got to Texas, and we were ready to open the doors, the demand was just, it was intense and instant. Lines lined up. Tickets sold out. It was incredible, to sort of see it.

Marc Simons:

People would board the bus, and then we'd let them out when they get to the site and saying, "Here you go. Go." We gave them some tokens so that they could exchange that for some beers, or things that we were giving out on at the park. But people could just wander and explore. And as people were sort wandering, exploring, they would see things playing out around them.

Marc Simons:

So we'd hire these actors, and they were acting out storylines, just the same way that it happens in Westworld, where the hosts, as they call them, are doing their storylines, and they invite you into the story. They invite you in to participate. To help them. Help someone find something that they lost, or look for somebody that they lost. Whatever it might be like. We had a whole bunch of different storylines that people could participate in, and they would just get sucked into this world. And we actually gave them a cowboy hat, as part of the experience. They're walking around proudly with this new cowboy hat that they've gotten from their experience.

Marc Simons:

That also became a bit of a marker that people were looking at. As you were walking around the rest of South by Southwest that weekend, or that week, people saw that the cowboy hat and then they'd be like, "Oh, did you go to the experience?" And then people would tell them about the experience. And it created its own sort of thing that people were just talking about, and it did what we needed it to do.

Charlie Melcher:

So first of all, just congratulations on it.

Marc Simons:

Thank you.

Charlie Melcher:

I've heard that it was really one of the most epic, immersive experiences ever made, as a marketing tool. And so I think it really goes down as a legendary example of immersive marketing. So let me ask you. Since you work with many brands, is it become easier to get companies to want to invest in this type of experiential marketing?

Marc Simons:

It still takes someone who's willing to take the risk. We now have a track record, so that's good. But it's still something where, to lay it all out for somebody and say, "This is what it's going to be. Trust us," still is a bit of an obstacle for people to get over.

Charlie Melcher:

I think we all know that there's this growing interest in experiential storytelling. So if you look at success of things like Punch Drunk, Sleep No More, or Meow Wolf.

Marc Simons:

Yep.

Charlie Melcher:

There's so many examples out there. Even Burning Man, I think-

Marc Simons:

Yeah. Totally.

Charlie Melcher:

Is a great example of this. And I remember reading somewhere that 74% of Americans now value experiences more than things. So this is part of a larger shift in our culture, from people wanting to collect stuff, or buy things, to feel good about themselves, to people wanting to share experiences that they've had.

Marc Simons:

Yep.

Charlie Melcher:

Share them socially. I'm always curious to get other people's insights into why are we hungry for these types of things? We've identified this idea of sharing.

Marc Simons:

Yeah.

Charlie Melcher:

So there's a little FOMO. You know? You want to share it because somebody else, "Look what I got to do. You didn't get to do it."

Marc Simons:

Totally. Yep.

Charlie Melcher:

I think that there's a lot of interest in investing in memories, that people are aware that an experience that's so powerful, and transformative, and perhaps shared with friends, or loved ones is something that you'll never forget. And therefore, is more valuable than a pair of jeans that's going to wear out.

Marc Simons:

Yeah. Thousand percent agree with all of that. That has definitely been a driver behind why these things have been working for us. These devices that are in our pockets certainly have something to do with it. And the social media that is behind it all as well, where people are sharing those experiences, and they want to share those experiences. There was that thing. That is what we're leaning into. Creating that FOMO. Creating those opportunities for people to share what they've been doing. Certainly. It's part of what's what was successful about 29 Rooms, and all of those pop-up experiences.

Marc Simons:

But I also agree with your other point that there's also this experience economy thing that's driving it as well. People value experiences, more than they do things. Gen Z is spending X number of dollars more on vacations than the generation before them. Those sort of data points are certainly, like they're a part of it. And we're leaning into that as well.

Marc Simons:

Why? I don't know. That, I don't think I've been able to really spend enough time thinking about either. What is it about the experience economy, and why people want to go do those things? What is it about now and here, that we're leaning into that? But it's definitely, I mean, that's absolutely a part of what we're leaning into. That's driving this.

Charlie Melcher:

And I like this part of our conversation, that sort of differentiates between the versions of experiences that are really to create social images for sharing, versus the ones that are about creating transformative memories. And these more meaningful ones, there's story, and there are emotions, and there's something that's maybe shared with other people that you did it with, that make it just much more powerful.

Marc Simons:

It's a layer deeper, for sure. We've definitely built in those moments for those photos to be taken. We know what we're doing there. We know that's one reason. But the idea that someone sort of lost themselves in the world that we had built, is what we're trying to do. If they walk in the door, and they think one thing about this brand, and they leave through the exit, and they think something completely different, and we've created an experience that they're going to remember for the rest of their lives, then we've something really special. That's always been what we've been trying to do, is create sort of a perception-changing experience, that creates that memory for somebody.

Charlie Melcher:

You've mentioned entertainment properties, so far. I know HBO, and Westworld, and Game of Thrones are examples of immersive experiences you've created. What other types of companies have you worked with, for these type of experiences?

Marc Simons:

We've worked with Under Armor. We've worked with Diageo, specifically the Johnny Walker Brand. For that one, just as an example, we created a sampling experience. So back to what I was talking about earlier, the client needs a sampling experience. They just want something different. They want something that's going to be a little bit more impactful, a little bit more memorable.

Marc Simons:

So we created Walker and Son's Grocer, which is actually like when you go to the story of Johnny Walker, and dig into it, it started as that. So we created this, sort of from a different era, grocer that you could walk into, and explore this little, sort feels like a general store from a different time. And everything's themed out to be for Johnny Walker. It is a sampling experience on steroids that is just more memorable. More impactful. Training the staff to talk about the story of Johnny Walker, and how it came to be Walker and Sons, the company behind it. Crafting it a little bit differently, and being able to tell more of a story. Taking a sampling opportunity and just going to a completely next level with it.

Marc Simons:

But when you're working with non-entertainment brands in a space, you have to think of, "What is the story that we're going to tell here? What is that narrative that someone's going to walk through, and experience, and how does it relate back to the brand?" Because you got to tell the story of the brand alongside the story you want them to walk through as well. A little bit more of a challenge, for sure. But it's fun, because it's sort of in that space, you can create your own narratives, in a lot of cases for those brands.

Charlie Melcher:

Let me ask you about some of the other innovative ways that you've helped brands tell stories. Are there other unique forms, or experimental ideas that you've been able to realize?

Marc Simons:

Outside of experiential, we love to take a page from any other world that might be crafting content and say, "How can we use a content structure?" Whatever it might be. Podcasting as an example. And, "How can we tell the story of a brand through podcast?"

Marc Simons:

So one cool example. We created a fictional podcast series for GE, a couple of years ago, that actually went to number one on iTunes. It was called The Message. And it was sort of a sci-fi story that we were telling. Hearkens back to a different time too. Because GE actually, if you remember, did GE Radio Theater back in, I don't even know. Well the fifties or sixties? And it was hosted by Ronald Reagan. It was a thing that they did, where they were telling stories on radio. So this idea that GE Podcast Theater could be a thing was sort of the Genesis of it.

Marc Simons:

So we created, I think it was eight, maybe 10 episodes. And it was a fictional story, where scientists were exploring this signal that they were getting from space, and something weird was happening whenever somebody would actually listen to this message, that was being beamed down. Couple days later after they listened to it, they would mysteriously die. And everyone was like, "Why is this happening? Whenever somebody listens to this string of sounds, that's coming from space, people perish. What is that?"

Marc Simons:

So it was sort of this follow along with the narrator, as she's exploring and talking to a scientists, and figuring out what is this thing? What is it that makes it tick? And we figured out a way to weave the brand of GE into that, because the scientists were all from General Electric, GE. Using GE technology, GE scientists, they're able to get to the bottom of what this is. And I won't spoil for anybody, but you should listen to it, because it is a good, well crafted story that people tuned in every week, when we launched the episodes, and it went to number one.

Marc Simons:

So I have to believe it. It did the thing that we wanted it to do. It told a compelling story that people wanted to listen to. It broke new ground. It showed that brands can have a role to play in this. You just have to do it right. You have to do it in a way that still is subtle, but it gets the message across, that is able to have that impact. Since then, we've done a number of different podcasts for different brands. Some more fiction ones, more interview style, where the brand is a sponsor, but that we weave them into the story. We're able to figure out what kind of role they can play it. And it's hundreds of minutes of content, that someone's listening to. So you're also getting the value of someone listening to something for hundreds of minutes, is valuable for the brand. Even if the brand's only showing up here and there, in very subtle ways, you've sucked them in to a world.

Marc Simons:

And then once you suck them in, and they're they're into the story, and they want to hear more, you can give them the messages that you want them to hear about the brand.

Charlie Melcher:

What do you see as the trend here? Do you think that more and more companies are going to be the source of great storytelling, and original media?

Marc Simons:

Yes. Yep. And that's what we're trying to do. We want more brands to be publishers. We want more brands to be storytellers. More brands to be content creators. These brands have great stories to tell. They have great products to sell. So when we're out there, and we're saying, "We can get your message across, and we can do it in a way where it feels like you're going to get a deeper level of engagement from that target."

Marc Simons:

But yeah, we certainly see the future where it's such a fragmented world of advertising that we live in today, that to cut through, you can create your own content, create your own stories, tell your own stories, and own your audience in that process too. When your audience is looking to you for more of that, then you've got them, and you can sort craft the sales message into it. But tell the story first.

Charlie Melcher:

Tell me a little bit about that Netflix launch that you did recently, for Stranger Things.

Marc Simons:

Yeah. Yeah. So this was Stranger Things season four. The client wanted a big moment. I mean, it's Stranger Things. It's one of their biggest franchise. They want everyone to be talking about this when it launches, and they wanted it to be something that could be global too. This is content that's available all around the world.

Marc Simons:

So we had this idea to take the upside down, and get it into all of these different big, sort of prominent, "look up and see it" kind of moments, where they were just like, you can't avoid it. It's so big. It's so disruptive. What can we do? So we opened up rifts across the world. The biggest one, and the marquee one, was this one that we did at the Empire State Building. It was massive. I mean it was a hundred plus stories tall.

Marc Simons:

The idea was we're going to create this sort of traffic stopping... And I think literally, it did stop traffic, and we had to make sure that it wasn't clogging traffic, but people pulled over on fifth avenue to look up and see this thing. But this massive projection, that we animated, that showed a rift opening on the side of the Empire State Building. Did it for a couple of hours one night, and just made so much noise about this. It's projections and projection mapping. They've certainly been around. People have seen that thing. They haven't seen it on the side of the Empire State Building, one of the most iconic buildings in the world, at such a scale, where millions of people in the city alone could look up and see this.

Marc Simons:

But then we made sure that we captured all the content that we could, from this thing that we were doing. Drones, helicopters, everyone sort of flying to make sure they were capturing it from different angles, and then showing how the rift was opening across the world. It wasn't just the Empire State Building. So working with Netflix to create that piece of content, that then rolled out, that showed that it was coming out. It was cool. That was a big one. Literally, a very big one.

Charlie Melcher:

Amazing. And that was happening simultaneously in other cities around the world?

Marc Simons:

Yeah. So Netflix had local partners. Different markets, taking the idea that we had. "Let's open up rifts across the world," and say, "All right, what does this look like in Madrid? What does it look like in Buenos Aires? What is it like?" And working with them, we'd sort of sync it all together, so it was all happening around the same time. And it told that bigger story.

Charlie Melcher:

I guess I also just wanted to come back to the type of clients, and some insights that you might have for people who are on the client side, and they're contemplating doing this kind of work. What advice would you give for the person? The CMO who's experiential-curious.

Marc Simons:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's a tricky thing too, because in our world, CMOs tend to be in the job for a couple of years. So they have to make sure, in the moment that they're in the job, that they're showing growth for the company that they're working for.

Marc Simons:

And they have to balance that with a bit of long term thinking, that the next CMO that might come in after them, or whoever, and the brand that's going to live on beyond this. That they are thinking about that as well. So that's a hard thing, because it's not something that we can necessarily even help them with.

Marc Simons:

Whenever we're starting an engagement with a client, they've indicated that they're interested in doing this. We certainly, we start with why. Just like anything else. "Why do you want to do this? What's the reason here." And if it's like, they want to tell the story of this brand. There is a story to tell. How do we just do it differently? If we can really help them ground it strategically first, then from there we can come up with tons of ideas. But we really need that why. Figure it out before we do anything.

Marc Simons:

Then after that it's really letting us do what we're good at. We're good at creating these experiences. We pay attention to all these little details, that we know people pick up on. So it's not getting out of our way. But letting us be the experts that we know how to be on this. We've done this a number of times now, too, that we know where the traps are, where the pitfalls are, so we can help navigate that. But really letting us be able to guide them through that. Pretty important for us to be able to do that for clients.

Charlie Melcher:

How much of the storytelling that you do ends up being across media? In multiple media, these days? Or does it often be like "We're going to do this one thing?"

Marc Simons:

It all tends to touch multiple media types, whether it is an experiential activation that we might do for an HBO or a Netflix, someone like that. We're doing the thing, but then we're also making sure that there are those moments where we tell people, "Open up your app at this point in the experience. Use it to see this augmented reality dragon, that we created for Game of Thrones." Those, we play around with the different touch points to help tell that story.

Marc Simons:

But it's all it's integrated into one narrative, that we're telling. It's going to be different for every single one of them though. Each idea is going to have its own set of, "What's the best way for this to come to life?" It might be very straightforward, where we just want you to just sit here, and we're going to tell you the story and nothing else. And that might be powerful enough, and we've figured out a way for that to happen. But using multiple media touchpoints is, I think it's more valuable, because it sort of gets you out into exploring it in a different way, which can be more impactful.

Charlie Melcher:

Where do you think the world of brand marketing is headed? What changes are taking place that you're noticing?

Marc Simons:

I do think that brands are starting to understand this brand-as-publisher idea. They're starting to double down on it. They're seeing the value in it. They're also seeing the value in "owning that audience". That's their audience then, where they don't have to buy their way into that audience. They've already created that.

Marc Simons:

Simplest example is social. We have a social expertise, where the social agency of record for a number of different brands. It's a space where a brand, who's creating good enough content that people will follow them on social. There are a lot of brands in the world that are creating content for social. So how do you just make sure that you got to keep investing? You got to keep going into that. But there's so much more value that can come out of it, because then you own that audience. You're able to tell a story whenever you want. Tell a brand message whenever you want. Something's going on sale. You've got an audience that you can speak to.

Charlie Melcher:

Anything we haven't talked about, Marc, that we should? That, in terms of Giant Spoon, in insights from years of doing this, things that would be great to share with a general storytelling audience?

Marc Simons:

We did a little bit of internal work, ourselves, trying to figure out... This is very recent. What is our reason for being, and why are we doing all this? And sort of digging and poking at it. And that idea that we're trying to create more memorable brands. I mean, it's Psychology 101 stuff.

Marc Simons:

But look at the relationship that I have with my wife, and the perception I have of her, and the relationship that we have, is built on the memories that we've built together. The years that we've been together, all the cool things we've done together, the trips we've gone on, the ups, the downs, everything. All of that builds up to what, in my head right now, I feel about her, and what the relationship means to me.

Marc Simons:

It's hard to then go say, "Oh well that's actually the same thing between people and brands." It's the culmination though, of all of those little touch points, and experiences, and memories that are built between me and Nike, and the childhood memories of putting on my first pair of Nikes. And maybe seeing an athlete that was wearing Nikes. And then this, and then that. It's the culmination of all of those things built up. All of those memories that create, today, what my relationship is with Nike. My perception of Nike, as a brand. And they did that work.

Marc Simons:

I'm almost 40. They've done 40 years of work building up what this brand means to me. That's a long sort of view, and it takes cycles of marketers to come and go at the brand, to keep building towards it. And keep building, keep building to what that brand is, and the value that they've created for that brand is apparent. It's probably trillions of dollars worth of value in that brand.

Marc Simons:

But I think what we're trying to do, as an agency, is we're saying, "We can help you get there. We can keep thinking of those moments, and those touchpoints." And think of, holistically, from the ads that need to be created, and will be created and they will be memorable too, all the way through to the experience in the store, that we can help you with, to make that more memorable. Because it's going to be the culmination of all of those memories that, decades from now, people are going to remember. And that's where the value creation really is.

Marc Simons:

Along the way, we'll make sure we sell shoes. Or whatever the thing is we're selling for you. That'll definitely be a part of the mix. But to sort of be shortsighted, as well as long term, in how you're building. Because if you do one without the other, the will suffer. Sharing that is how we've been thinking about it, to get to this point where we're putting a stake in the ground. This is what the world needs, from an advertising agency point of view. Agencies that are looking towards this.

Charlie Melcher:

Well, that seems like a great place for us to wrap up this conversation. Marc, thank you so much for making the time. And it's a real-

Marc Simons:

Absolutely.

Charlie Melcher:

Real pleasure and honor to have you here with us today, on the FoST podcast.

Marc Simons:

Thank you again. Really appreciate it. It was a good conversation. Really, really, really enjoyed it. Thank you.

Charlie Melcher:

My sincere thanks to Marc Simons, for joining me on today's show. To learn more about Giant Spoon, you can find a link to their website in this episode's description.

Charlie Melcher:

My warm gratitude to all of you who listened to our show. If you enjoyed the podcast, and want more FoST in your life, please leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts, and sign up for our free monthly, at FoST.org.

Charlie Melcher:

The Future of Storytelling podcast is produced by Melcher Media, in collaboration with our talented production partner, Charts & Leisure. I hope we'll see you again soon for another deep dive into the world of storytelling. Until then, please be safe, stay strong and story on.